My letter to Dan Morrill (XDA)

[ggrant3876]

An interesting read.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4611601&postcount=1
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4611602&postcount=2

[f4phantomii]

Seemed unnecessarily aggressive and ranting to me, rather than the cold, logical, businesslike argument it was trying to be.

[ggrant3876]

Seemed unnecessarily aggressive and ranting to me, rather than the cold, logical, businesslike argument it was trying to be.
I don't agree with everything he said, but it was interesting.

[simms22]

The letter was not/is not over aggressive ! It is just how it should be , full of emotion .
If this letter was very business like , it would be to "cold" . The emotion in this letter is what oit needs , the warmth , the heat , of the feeling that are inside every one of us who felt/feels disenfrancised by google . I personaly have always been behind google . I have always supported them . I feel like I was just brushed away by google , like a fly that's been bugging it . Google just told me that it doesn't NEED my support . That's fine google , I don't need you either . I have your android device , it wll be used asa "weapon" in my personal fight and to move our whole androidworldwide community forward . Remember , tea is very cheap in nyc . The water flows and is just as cold as in boston harbor . The water here flows to all the harbors of the world , let it run green with tea , with our utter disappointment of you , google .

[simms22]

ps.
i have alway envisioned myself as part of a future "google cult" , since they will be one of the leaders of our future world . it seems that i was wrong . it now appears that i will be a "soldier" in the army , fighting for what is right and wholesome , fighting for our liberties , fighting against google using their own products against them . hopefully , google itself will see the error in their ways and correct it . by the way , this is not about the google apps or cooked roms , this is about googles hypocricy .

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie. Hypocrisy may come from a desire to hide from others actual motives or feelings."

[djunio]

ps.
i have alway envisioned myself as part of a future "google cult" , since they will be one of the leaders of our future world . it seems that i was wrong . it now appears that i will be a "soldier" in the army , fighting for what is right and wholesome , fighting for our liberties , fighting against google using their own products against them . hopefully , google itself will see the error in their ways and correct it . by the way , this is not about the google apps or cooked roms , this is about googles hypocricy .

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie. Hypocrisy may come from a desire to hide from others actual motives or feelings."

exactly, most people think we are mad because they dont want us redistributing their apps, NO, its about them claiming everything they released themselves in the code was open when in reality its not. u can introduce something as open for anybody to modify then a yr later say its all closed source.

[simms22]

its absolutely not about the apps for me . google hurt me , personally . all the faith i have ever had for them , down the drain . everything that i have ever believed about google , no matter how good or awesome it was , is no longer there . everything . with this "lie" , everything else becomes a "lie" to me . i really do feel hurt and saddened by google deep inside . like i was hurt by a close friend :(

[ggrant3876]

its absolutely not about the apps for me . google hurt me , personally . all the faith i have ever had for them , down the drain . everything that i have ever believed about google , no matter how good or awesome it was , is no longer there . everything . with this "lie" , everything else becomes a "lie" to me . i really do feel hurt and saddened by google deep inside . like i was hurt by a close friend :(
That's the same way I felt Friday night, didn't want to eat and couldn't sleep. Thinking about revenge.;)

[djunio]

[QUOTE=simms22;252865]its absolutely not about the apps for me . google hurt me , personally . all the faith i have ever had for them , down the drain . everything that i have ever believed about google , no matter how good or awesome it was , is no longer there . everything . with this "lie" , everything else becomes a "lie" to me . i really do feel hurt and saddened by google deep inside . like i was hurt by a close friend :([/QUOTE

I feel, u they one more bad move away from being in my Apple hate zone. I wanna stick with Android but I'm almost to the point where I'll leave everything Google, I hate being lied to, they should've set the rules in the beginning. Either they have bad business people that are too stupid to list what is closed in the beginning or they just dont care and said f everyone who helped make Android better.

[Rusty]

This is ridiculous. Google said that you cannot distribute the closed source apps that are not part of the AOSP. For an actual list see here: http://source.android.com/projects
The modding community will find a way to distribute their roms without the closed source applications while still allowing you to keep the Google Apps that came with your handset. Stop complaining and quit with all the boycott google/android stuff. They still have released the best open source mobile operating system available.

[simms22]

This is ridiculous. Google said that you cannot distribute the closed source apps that are not part of the AOSP. For an actual list see here: http://source.android.com/projects
The modding community will find a way to distribute their roms without the closed source applications while still allowing you to keep the Google Apps that came with your handset. Stop complaining and quit with all the boycott google/android stuff. They still have released the best open source mobile operating system available.

have you read and understood anything ? its NOT ABOUT THE APPS ! of course the modding community will figure things out , they already have ! im not leaving android , nor do i plan on it . i want android to grow , to prosper . the problem to me is about google and my personal "relationship" with . and how i felt lied to and deceived . they can have their damn apps !

[ggrant3876]

have you read and understood anything ? its NOT ABOUT THE APPS ! of course the modding community will figure things out , they already have ! im not leaving android , nor do i plan on it . i want android to grow , to prosper . the problem to me is about google and my personal "relationship" with . and how i felt lied to and deceived . they can have their damn apps !
Good post, I wanted to say the same thing but you beat me.

[djunio]

Good post, I wanted to say the same thing but you beat me.

I agree, I dont even use their apps ever anyway, but Android is crippled without Google's source code, its deeper than apps.

[ggrant3876]

I agree, I dont even use their apps ever anyway, but Android is crippled without Google's source code, its deeper than apps.
The only app I use is Gmail, just to sign in after a wipe. There is a way of doing it with adb and I might give that a try the next time I wipe.

[Rusty]

I agree, I dont even use their apps ever anyway, but Android is crippled without Google's source code, its deeper than apps.

Seriously what are you talking about? The source is available. It has been available since October 21st, 2008. You can download it here: http://android.git.kernel.org/
Someone please explain how google lied? When were you told that you could distribute licensed closed source applications? How is android suddenly less open?

[ggrant3876]

One more.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4616713&postcount=1

[ggrant3876]

Seriously what are you talking about? The source is available. It has been available since October 21st, 2008. You can download it here: http://android.git.kernel.org/
Someone please explain how google lied? When were you told that you could distribute licensed closed source applications? How is android suddenly less open?
When we paid for our phones we inturned bought the google closed source apps. By copyright laws we are legally able to back up the apps. Cyan never changed the source code of the apps in question, basically he backed them up for us and restored them for us, and they were put onto the phones that legally could have them. If they were put on some kind of wimo phone I can see there point. Anyone that owns an android phone has legally purchased the apps in question.

[Rusty]

However there is no way to confirm that only people who have legally purchased phones that have properly licenses those applications install those roms. I agree that there can and should be a more constructive way for Google to approach this since the community built around modding android is very enthusiastic and I dare say evangelical. However Google never lied and if everyone stops complaining and looks at our options we can still continue to make great progress with custom android development.
Google needed to put a stop to unlicensed distribution. I mean these companies that are taking Android and customizing it for their purposes put time and money and should expect to make a profit from those investments. If they want to contribute their changes back to AOSP then they can, but are not required to.

[ggrant3876]

However there is no way to confirm that only people who have legally purchased phones that have properly licenses those applications install those roms. I agree that there can and should be a more constructive way for Google to approach this since the community built around modding android is very enthusiastic and I dare say evangelical. However Google never lied and if everyone stops complaining and looks at our options we can still continue to make great progress with custom android development.
Google needed to put a stop to unlicensed distribution. I mean these companies that are taking Android and customizing it for their purposes put time and money and should expect to make a profit from those investments. If they want to contribute their changes back to AOSP then they can, but are not required to.
Cyan is already working on a backup app, or program, that will back up our google apps and then restore them after we flash his rom.

[djunio]

Seriously what are you talking about? The source is available. It has been available since October 21st, 2008. You can download it here: http://android.git.kernel.org/
Someone please explain how google lied? When were you told that you could distribute licensed closed source applications? How is android suddenly less open?

You might want to do more research before you post, if you have you would clearly see that 70 or 80 percent of that is Google's property, none of that can be used. Read through these then come back http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=564263

http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform?msg=subscribe

Android in it's current state is NOT open, you can't use the radio for a cell signal, you can even startup the phone because google owns the boot and setupwizard. Cyan's new method backs all that up and reinstalls it, Google may have a problem with that as well.

[djunio]

However there is no way to confirm that only people who have legally purchased phones that have properly licenses those applications install those roms. I agree that there can and should be a more constructive way for Google to approach this since the community built around modding android is very enthusiastic and I dare say evangelical. However Google never lied and if everyone stops complaining and looks at our options we can still continue to make great progress with custom android development.
Google needed to put a stop to unlicensed distribution. I mean these companies that are taking Android and customizing it for their purposes put time and money and should expect to make a profit from those investments. If they want to contribute their changes back to AOSP then they can, but are not required to.

There is no illegal distribution because these roms only work on Google's own Android devices. If someone really wanted to steal them they could easily pull the apk's and modify them to work on non Androids and they could get them with or without getting them off a custom rom.

[thunderstruck]

One thing to keep in mind is Google is primarily a search engine, most of whose revenue comes in the form of adSense etc dollars. It's in Google's best interest to have as many eyes as possible using their links, and things that drive people to the competition like Yahoo and Bing don't help their income. You don't charge SuperBowl ad rates for Melrose Place, and they'll have trouble justifying high rates if their customers switch to alternative services to spread the word about products for sale. Google won't get a commission if I click a Yahoo sponsored link.

[Rusty]

There is no illegal distribution because these roms only work on Google's own Android devices. If someone really wanted to steal them they could easily pull the apk's and modify them to work on non Androids and they could get them with or without getting them off a custom rom.

Just because the distributor has the intent of his rom only being used on Google Experience devices does not mean that it will or that he has any rights to distribute. Distribution rights are not granted when you purchase the phone.

[djunio]

Just because the distributor has the intent of his rom only being used on Google Experience devices does not mean that it will or that he has any rights to distribute. Distribution rights are not granted when you purchase the phone.

Once again lol, nothing was distributed, those apps are on the phone already, cyan didnt give them to anyone.

[djunio]

One thing to keep in mind is Google is primarily a search engine, most of whose revenue comes in the form of adSense etc dollars. It's in Google's best interest to have as many eyes as possible using their links, and things that drive people to the competition like Yahoo and Bing don't help their income. You don't charge SuperBowl ad rates for Melrose Place, and they'll have trouble justifying high rates if their customers switch to alternative services to spread the word about products for sale. Google won't get a commission if I click a Yahoo sponsored link.

Another good point and if memory serves me correct when Google introduced Android they said they dont plan on profiting from it, it was only a tool for them to spread the advertising to phones.

[Rusty]

Once again lol, nothing was distributed, those apps are on the phone already, cyan didnt give them to anyone.

Completely incorrect. Why don't you open up the .zip file from a Cyanogen Rom and look in the \system\app\ directory.

[djunio]

Completely incorrect. Why don't you open up the .zip file from a Cyanogen Rom and look in the \system\app\ directory.

Been seen it, its not hard to get the same files of the phone itself, with or without cyan or anybody else you can get these files just by having the phone.

[Rusty]

Been seen it, its not hard to get the same files of the phone itself, with or without cyan or anybody else you can get these files just by having the phone.

Agreed. Which is why Cyanogen and company are coming up with an alternative way to load the roms without the licensed applications in the distributed file. Some developers will probably even come out with open source alternatives to many of the Google Apps. Copyright and licensing agreements are respected and everything moves forward. And hopefully Google will find a more constructive way to engage the custom rom community.

[djunio]

Agreed. Which is why Cyanogen and company are coming up with an alternative way to load the roms without the licensed applications in the distributed file. Some developers will probably even come out with open source alternatives to many of the Google Apps. Copyright and licensing agreements are respected and everything moves forward. And hopefully Google will find a more constructive way to engage the custom rom community.

That's what they are doing now but most of android is closed source, they are pretty much building it from the ground up. This is like if you bought a house then the builder of the house came and put you because you didnt really own the house, all you owned was the frame. That's all thats open source in Android is the framework, Google made it appear like whatever they put in the AOSP was open and its not.

[OKC-G1]

the android that comes on the G1 is googles version. what THEY thought would be good things to have.

all those 3rd party OS's are what THAT dev thinks would work best.

using party number 1's items, for your own OS..is illegal no matter how you look at it.


I buy a brand new chevy corvette, take off the chevy sign, slap on an OKC-G1 sign. Maybe add some go fast parts that didn't come on the car, change the wheels..... Is it still a corvette? yea it is...right?

google is right.
you are wrong.

but nice letter though.

[danguyf]

Seriously what are you talking about? The source is available. It has been available since October 21st, 2008. You can download it here: http://android.git.kernel.org/
Someone please explain how google lied? When were you told that you could distribute licensed closed source applications? How is android suddenly less open?

Try compiling that source and installing it on your phone. Then try to make a phone call.

You can't. The code to control the radio is proprietary and not included in open source Android.